The Liverpool Football Club
& Athletic Grounds Ltd.,
registered Office ; Anfield Road
LIVERPOOL L4 0TH
Great BRITAIN (sent by post, fax & email )
For the Attention of Suzanne Cohen.- Customer Services Manager
Podgorica 25th April 2012 WITHOUT PREJUDICE / Open letter
I have today received your letter, & considerably delayed, "reaction", to complaints made "online" etc. Although "certain matters" may have eased in recent weeks. I am deeply saddened by the decline in standards in the "office & officers" representing our Club. This recent saga, the culmination of more than 10 years un-necessary 'conflicts" with you & others who do NOT reach the standards WE expect on the field, in team management nor from felllow supporters in the stands, are you not ASHAMED as "customer services manager" of the declining standard of RESPECT to those people who helped BUILD Lfc into a global entity and make your employment possible?
Your "response" is a lazy attempt to 'paper over" the previous failings, and seems to reflect a now common "PR method" which covers up a distinct lack of care, awareness and co-ordination!
1. The list of complaints (which INCLUDES THE NAMES of certain "affected members" had you BOTHERED to read through them, as you claim) are:
- Card numbers ; 000010612352 (previously ; 10369748 & > M99999 whose HISTORY was NEVER transferred as YOU once promised) 10660884,
10661248 & 000010661251
Lfc Reference Numbers :
N.b. The "last - minute" (appreciated) INTERVENTION of Karen Murphy concerning v Arsenal tickets, does not compensate, at all, for the ignorance to the plight of our members stated to IAN AYRES, your office colleagues & to K. Gill ("committee chairman") & the "attitude" of those employed by Lfc!
2. The quite pathetic response also IGNORES a LIST of complaints (AND CONSTRUCTIVE observations & advices offered ) sent to K. Gill ("committee chairman") and so-called "international representatives" of the "committee" (I have deliberately excluded the word "Supporter" because it in no way represents the core SUPPORT that I again remind you, BUILT this club. In monetary terms alone could have paid for 2 houses with the fundsI have "invested" in supporting the Liverpool Team over the years, which is nothing compared to the emotional stress. Whilst writing I contest the validity of the "committee" and have severe doubts about the intentions behind behind appointing this "committee" & the reasons a figurehead such as K. Gill was chosen to chair it.
3. The extremely serious Failures of the board & FSG such as;
- Henry-Werner weak support of K. Dalglish & L.Suarez
- Their ABSENCE at the Hillsborough memorial
- The questionable dealings at the time of removal of G & H, and shortly after.
Shows a continued lack of commitment to the Spirit & Cuture of our Supporters.
The Dubious role of Ian Ayres;
- During the Luis Suarez affair
- The false (& forced) removal of Rafa Benitez
- During the appointment of C. Purslow, R. Hodgson & others who have damaged our club ; on & off the field!
Contain clear indications that Messrs. Henry, Werner & Ayres are UNFIT to be officers or custodians of our GREAT Club.
CONCLUSION "without prejudice"
I do not hold the opinion that your "apology" is sincere, or qualified by the actions (or lack) of those who claim "custody" of Liverpool Football club, therefore;
A FORMAL Plaint on behalf of LIVERPOOL Football Supporters, Worldwide, shall be delivered to the registered office of the club following the end of season 2011/2012 which may lead to an INJUNCTION against FSG & its officers, with the intent to REMOVE them from OUR club, and a "class action" against NESV may simultaneously be served in the USA. Due to the protocolls of the ECHR (Strasbourg) namely article 13, and in accord with the UN declaration the aspects of discrimination against our members from the Balkan regions of the former Yugoslavian states, requires any complaint to be made firstly against the United Kingdom government, citing the FCO & the officers I have previously named responsible therein.
Christopher R. Smith F. Inst D.
(U.R.S.U.N. / "Balkan REdS")
Tripa Kokolja 15,
(Lfc)Thanks for submitting your question. Use this reference number for follow up: #120425-000016
A member of our support team will get back to you soon.
If you need to update your question, click the Your Account tab and select the question to open and update it.
taken from "my KOP:
photos "censored" ?
Welcome, REdAlieN (27255 points) My Kop Logout
True REdS v "fannies" ..Continued
decent article, BUT i see these sky-washed fannies, who have the patience and concentration of a GNAT are “commenting” ..
probably none of them stood on the old KOp when WE knew what “the Holy trinity” really meant and its NOTHING to do with “RESULTS” ..dignity and loyalty dont exist in the dictionary of such “fannies”./….
FFS! Dalglish has not even completed a full season, in charge, and JUST what Kenny did previously for Lfc , for LIVERPOOL people, and for the HILLSBOROUGH famies DEMANDS he is given time..
I wont even discuss Hodgson who was a POODLE of the previous FRAUDULENT yankers, & who was the OPPOSITE of what A LFC man should be , in EVERY aspect!
I dont have any “warmth” towards Hodgson (unless “bonfire night came early this year) but if I write my opinion of his appointment then you certainly wont print it,
but as for the Team..
I feel that Stevie’s (apparently valid) exclusion sunday sends a negative message that this game was not vital, possibly to our players and certainly to some “fans” if he was at least on the bench…his presence would be an influence, at least? – I am worried about Stevie playing @ “Euro 12″ that we will lose his best..(we havent had it since 09)
some “fans” criticise FAR FAR too easily, and the crowd is TOO quiet at Anfield and too many sit expecting to be “entertained” this is not the way our original Support was “educated” during the days of Shanks etc… many modern fans may as well stay at home and watch on TV for all their (lack of) contribution to being SUPPORTers..
As for refereeing ; some claim that things get “evened out” over the season but increasingly referee are giving 50/50 decisions 70/30 against us…I would be interested to see if anyone from Lfc Tv could devote time to actually go back through games and add them up as well the “woodwork” stats..
I “believed” we would go all the way in both cups, and hoped we would do well in the league, our performances have been arguably better in league games yet “luck” favoured us in the cup games.. someimes thats just football..and life, havent you ever experienced situations when no matter WHAT,
.... it just dont go your way???
!.... and we supporters shouldn’t moan because we are far improved in our expectations with Kenny – albeit compared with the dismal short (but damaging) “involvement” of Hodgson..
A great team scores from all its players, and ALL of our players can claim “bad luck” …I am confident IF we support them and create a POSITIVE atmosphere luck will improve..
and lastly, for those who moan about Luis “hothead” and not being “clinical” …well, to an extent it 's his “nature” & unique style that gets him into these chances in the first place…and he too may be justified to rue his lack of fortune several times.. perhaps Luis, as with Torres, he requires some personal coaching that Rafa did with Fernando which turned that player into a prolific scorer
..Luis certainly has many goals in him, considering he scored 40 or so in his last season for Ajax?
we dont need a new manager, although I would like to see Rafa brought back into the club in some way, its a waste to lose his genius, we dont need new players – we need people who support each other – we DONT need people who moan and groan and boo and whinge, I wish those of u who do that would simply F*** off to Goodison or OT or any where else in the universe! ciao!
and please if u cant SUPPORT through adversity DONT call yourself SUPPORTers!!!
YNWA/J4t96 = JUSTICE for all
CS>Crazyhorse777 thanks for that contribution (btw Emlyn was my favourite when I was a lad, still IMO the best captain we ever had...) I will read through it and respond, if appropriate , TA again,
Hodgson was nothing more than a puppet appointed by a bankster elite board temporarily put in charge as a result of the legalized criminality of the debt leveraged "buy-out" using debt money created out of thin air by the banksters, lent to two chancer spivs, Waldorf and Statler (H and G), in order for them to try and milk LFC dry.....
Unfortunately for them, their corrupt Wall Street mafia and City of London gangsters pals deliberately brought the credit bubble crashing down temporarily in the bankster-induced Financial Crash of 2008 so they walked away with sweet FA.....
Poor old nice guy Woy walked away with his arrogant snide demeanour still ignored by the duplicitous mainstream media but having been fully revealed to all LFC fans, and with a "velly nice indeed" £7.5 million pay-off for achiving the square root of f#ck-all in his disastrous stint as LFC boss.....With Sky Turd pundits and Wapping gutter media hacks hailing him still as a future Engurlund manager alongside strawman identity offshore bank account running Arry.....Gertcha...jellied eels...
For me the jury is still out on NESV - they failed to reply to my letter about the FA breaching the principles of English natural justice - http://thekop.liverpoolfc.tv/_Letter-to-FA-re-Suarez-reply-received/blog/5858563/173471.html although I noticed they fired one of the LFC legal team....Their limp response to te handshake incident suggests tey are overly and ill-advisedly concerned about global brand awareness as projected and misreported by disinformation-spreading mainstream media in the UK and US,,,particularly the toxi News International sewer outlets and the toxic New York Times...
Check out my blog on the criminal Murdoch's propaganda empire and its decades old war against LFC and Liverpool - http://thekop.liverpoolfc.tv/_MURDOCH-THE-TRUTH-NEVER-LIES/blog/6006719/173471.html
Please also check out my blogs on the misreporting of the Suarez case by the pro-Tory/New Labour mainstream media and the violations of natural justice principles in the Suarez case, including the FA violating the principle of implied bias by appointing friend of the Fergusons, Denis Smith, to the FA Panel overseeing the case....
Please also check ot my blog on the leveraged debt criminals and their Wall Street and City of London bannkster cartel connections:
YNWA JFT96 IKWT
This Hodgson thing has come up a number of times with fans saying that why didn't we support him. I was under the same impression that H&G choose him over Dalglish even though Dalglish was already in place. Well he is here now and Hodgson is not!
IKWT for sure! I wanted Dalglish back and it happened how cool is that!
CS> RuSRED, why are you following Lfc? dont U know about our history?, Hodgson was appointed by G & H , who are FRAUDS (instaed of appointing Kenny after Rafa!!) ...WE helped to force out G & H because they nearly destroyed our club off the field,
Hodgson's tactics on the field nearly got us relegated and forced some of our best players to leave..and others nearly did, ebcause of his "AleHouse footy"
Rafa was/is a Genius ; the most succesful LFC manager in the 20 years between Kenny , Rafa won all major titles excluding the EPL , Hodgson never won ANY MAJOR title,, and his ATTITUDE was disrectful towards LFc history and Supporters, he moaned about us...in public! need I say more... I have written a lot in the past...check http://eured.wordpress.com/ (if its not been "banned' ) ha ha,,,
As recently I gave the name "fannies" to those "fans" who claim to follow Lfc - but are really NOT SUPPORTing the "holy Trinity" = which was BONDED during the days of Shanks, its the TRUE REdS "Liverpool way" which binds TEAM Manager; Players & SUPPORTers
....NOT "fannies".. ;)
It may be useful to explain what a "fannie" IS or may be by asking questions
....so, come on be HONEST, ;)
* Did you start following Lfc because of ONE player or ONE final won by Lfc?
* DO you text your friends during a game, instead of watching?
* If your girlfriend (wife?) asks - would you MISS an Lfc match to be with her? (*same goes for "other halves" ;) tx "dubgirl")
* Do you post negative comments about players on web forums or twitter during the game, or after?
* Do you actually believe Hodgson should ever have been associated with our Club?
* Do you phone in to radio or LfcTV to show how much you know more than Kenny, or Rafa previously?
* You expect our team to play as well as the Lfc team on your video game?
* YOU think that having more money is the only way to make a succesful team/club?
* You would never stand in the rain to watch our Team?
* YOU have never played footy and/or wouldn't want to unless it made you rich.?
* YOU wouldnt follow the team if it didnt win anything for more than 5 seasons?
* You would not travel to away games, if travel & accomodation was not easily organised?
* YOU would never attend a Hillsborough memorial service.?
AT THE STADIUM (IF you are a rare "fannie" that goes to a match..)
* Do you arrive late at your seat, disturbing those that got there on time?
* DO you leave your seat during the game, to get food or drinks?
* Do you leave the match early if we are losing or to get home early or miss the rush?
* DO YOU BOO our manager or players AT ANY TIME??????
* Do you wear a jesters hat (and are over 18 years of age) ?
* You never sing unless we are winning or at least not losing?
|This is part of US!|
from another RED 777crazyhorse (mY kop)
"Liverpool does not suffer from historical amnesia....the past remains defiantly present. As a keeper of the secrets of the blood, sweat and tears of ordinary people, Liverpool has few equals.
"That is why it excites such prejudice, even hatred (from outsiders and especially the London Establishment and elite), and why the unfashionable resistance of its people endures.
"Under Margaret Thatcher, the people of Toxteth rose against a newly politicised police force. Thatcher's assault on local democracy almost came to grief in Liverpool.
'Self-pity city,' Rupert Murdoch's Sunday Times abused it when a thousand people publicly mourned the murder of James Bulger; Liverpool was 'a paranoia theme park' that 'refuses to listen to criticism'.
"That came after Murdoch's S#n had lied that Liverpool FC football fans had robbed and molested the dead in the Hillsborough stadium disaster. Today, a widespread boycott of the S#n on Merseyside holds after more than seven years (Hidden Agendas was published in 1998), which would be remarkable anywhere else."
THE S#N'S INFAMOUS "TRUTH" HEADLINE ABOUT HILLSBOROUGH WAS NOTHING BUT GROTESQUE LIES, DELIBERATELY AND FALSELY CREATED AND PUBLISHED BY THE THEN S#N EDITOR, KELVIN MACKENZIE, AND WITH MURDOCH'S APPROVAL, AS PILGER EXPLAINS: "Like much in MacKenzie's S#n, it was clearly intended to pander to prejudice. Other journalists on the S#n appeared to know this instinctively. 'As Mackenzie's ("Truth") layout was seen by more and more people,' wrote Peter Chippendale and Chris Horrie in their 'History of the S#n' book; '..a collective shudder ran through the office (but) Mackenzie's dominance was so total there was nobody left in the organisation who could rein him in except Murdoch.
'Everyone seemed paralysed, like rabbits in headlights....The error was staring them in the face was too glaring....It obviously wasn't a serious mistake; nor was it simple oversight. Nobody had any comment on it... - they just took one look at it then walked away shaking their heads in wonder at the enormity of it....It was a classic "smear" on LFC fans and the city of Liverpool...'
"Phil Hammond of the Hillsborough Families Support Group (told John Pilger): 'The S#n said that fans were urinating on bodies....We got all the clothes back; they hadn't been washed; none of them smelt of urine. But some mud sticks, doesn't it; and there is always someone willing to pass it on.
'The S#n HURT US, and hurt us badly. We've had to defend the name of our loved ones when all they did was go to a football match and never come back.'
"In the days that followed, Billy Butler, a popular Radio Merseyside disc jockey, became a voice for Liverpool's grief and anger: 'There were newsagents calling in, assuring people they would not stock The S#n. They were writing on their windows: "We do not have the S#n here". There was a public burning of the S#n in Kirkby. Caller after caller said they were boycotting the rag, and the boycott is still going strong today...It's a marvellous way that ordinary people have to show their power, and this city used it.
"The S#n's mis-treatment of the Hillsborough Tragedy (eventually blamed on inadequate policing, stewarding and poor stadium design and health and safety procedures), was typical not only of its record of distortion, but of its cruelty"
Extracts courtesy of - John Pilger - Hidden Agendas
I should add that the Merseyside boycott of the S#n cost News International £10 million a year in lost revenue...prompting Murdoch to try and get Mackenzie to publicly explain his lying editorial...
Mackenzie never properly apologised for his role in this shameful and appalling breach of morality and ethics....
12423 a chapter on "this crimi-nation" & anti-Social BIAS
(from http://now2balien.blogspot.com/ )
WE need to be 19+to win 19+ !!
(13 is not enough to beat the opposing 12?)
This is another MAIN "reason" for writing MY story..although trying to "pack in" 50 years of "awareness" into a form of media, to get a message across, when most readers have only attention span of a few minutes makes it easier for the "enemy" to control your minds...
As I am writing this on the 23rd April 2012 I was reflecting on "luck" and how sometimes " everything is against us" feeling as we battered a team yet the result said we "lost" ..that is Life, we can dominate, we can command, show skill, make chances but at the end the result is "your dead" ...so doesnt it make sense to enjoy the game? ...of life! so I challenge y-our enemies...
..."rain drops keep failling..nothing seems to fit, nothing's worrying me ,.because I'm free" it fits my feeling today! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_5l6rIUu4A
I was prevented from partcipating in my son's life by his jealous & selfish mother (Annika), she convinced herself, with plenty of people around her that agreed, to keep Leon (as she called him) HER "possession" ...he has now , as he approaches the age of 16, made more or less regular "contact" with me via email..and I recently sent him the link to
..."nothing but the truth".(link)..a fictional film which related the cost (losing family) that a reporter made in order to stand up against what is wrong...
@ Liverpool Football Club, we have a ..reflection of bias thats gone before as a community, in life and individually ...there is a "mobbing" aspect whether subtle or obvious in bias or outright DIS CRIMI NATION (another nick name for Monty?) .."this Crimi-nation" ? in all parts of this modern world, I hate to use "society" because there isn't much "social" ....about it any more..
I refered in my "ChristorY" to to being parented by daily socialist influences, my mum being gen Secretary of the regional Labour Party , and all our family would help out at Elections , delivering election leaflets/posters etc ... I was enthusiastic as the 60's revolution opened up challenges to the establishment, via music, tv, humour, politics & sport,
WE were DIFFERENT to other Supporters ; being "socialist-scallies" as opposed to the right-wing hooligans of most english football clubs..
surely no intelligent person could imagine living in a society without Social Justice? but here we are, almost half a century later, having allowed the erosion of almost tentative application of equality and anti-discrimination articles establish after world wars by the now impotent UN and so-called "democracy"..
Ironic that the fall of the Soviet Union has also led to a fascist-consumerism - media & money are your rulers now, and they dont respect you at all!...
In our Club the "FA" Football Association is SO biased that this has been seen in almost every game ; decisions that are 50/50 are now 70/30 against us..people always say "it evens out" well lately it certainly does NOT!!..
The FA is ruled by London, the people who have fought against the LIVERPOOL community back to the days when Thatcher (the "milk snatcher" she took away kiddies daily milk as one of her first government policies..!!!!) resented the "Rebel Cause" of the Liverpool UNion leaders & Liberal-socialists who dared question the "Iron Lady") ...closing docks & factories & mines that may well have been uneconomic, but then DENIED the right of "opposition" with anti-union and anti-SOCIAL policies that then instilled a stupidity in the public media (much can be learnt by watching the potemkin league (link) ...
As business-sponsored media took over from politicians to control the minds of masses - the scum told the ever dumber public that "scousers are lazy thieves" and gagged anyone who dared speak against the rule of iron...
Now renovated, the belgian stadium @ Heysel, was then was the WRONG venue....of One of the most horrific memories of my life and a day when I fell out of love with footy...was of Heysel ( that was obviously ill-equipped to stage a European Cup Final) despite warning from our club, which was 20 years into an unrivaled period of domestic & European football domination, with a massive following.. BNP (fascists) infiltrated the travelling fans and also some fringe football fans who "hung on" to our club because we traveled and they were eng-ur-land fans who wanted to punch some foreigners.. It was also easy to stoke up some REdS who had been stoned by Roma fans after we won the final IN THEIR STADIUM only the year before, women & kids from Liverpool had been hurt, and we played against JUVE in 1985 (another Italian club...) with their fascist "Utras" looking for trouble...
39 Italians died, the JUVE Ultras had been throwing missiles into a section of Liverpool fans, and the stupid authorities had sold tickets in a middle MIXED section - with no segregation between the two factions...so "urged" by the above stimulation the Liverpool "fans" including the BNP/hangers on/england fans reacted by "charging"the JUve Ultras.. but the ancient stand (criticised by Lfc previous to the match) gave way, and collapsed causing the italians to crush each other.
The stadium manager & Local Police chief were both convicted by the belgians for their neglect and LIVERPOOL football club were banned for HILLSBOROUGH Sheffield(link) several Years from playing in European football.. This probably cost Liverpool the chance of winning perhaps another 2 or 3 European Champions Cups (now "champions league") ...as our club retained the status of being the best of British, and the english league is the hardest to win, probably in the World.
The political bias was seen within the UEFA decision...the blame PUBLICLY went against US, not the stadium, not the police who did nothing during riots when JUVE fans were wealding iron bars, (they were NOT banned!!!!) ...the media blamed LIVERPOOL...
Then when only FOUR years later, the FA (repeat THE FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION) made a DISGRACEFUL decision about the allocation of stand and tickets to Lfc for a semi final @ The stadium (also withOUT a valid safety licence) authorities and SHEFFIELD POLICE (directed by THATCHER's policies) caused a "legalised MURDER" of NINETY - SIX (96!) REdS supporting the team BY sending them into a CRUSH, and then PENNING them IN, when the CRUSH was OBVIOUS, and whilst Police stood and watched our own REDS saved probably another 200 from death, the POLICE refused ambulances from ENTERING the ground...
Yes "disasters & accidents" happen...
BUT ....this was deliberate WE were MISTREATED beacause we had no "lobby" in the Thatcher anti-social government, NOR in the "FA" (based in London) NOR in UEFA - whose Directors RESENTED that we had WON FOUR EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS CUP TITLES IN THE PREVIOUS 7 YEARS BEFORE HEYSEL! and the SCUM journalists like mackenzie sniffed their chance to pour more sh*te on us! ..printing outright lies in the S*n that means no TRUE REd would ever buy that "tabloid" again!
My personal association with LIVERPOOL and the issues of Social Justice ALSO cost me dearly. I have lost my own family (replaced by Global REdS to an extent) I had lost 8 companies and assets worth a MILLION GBP due to a judge awarding an unique "anton pillar morava injunction" in a high court dispute. Both my parents & son died suspiciously whilst IN THE CARE of the UK "state"! My house was sold by the UK state whilst I was "abroad" I was denied my own english lawyer when I made complaints against "germoney" - after my 2 kids were "legally abducted" Violations by the UK govt & the germans were denied due to "technicalities" following TWELVE YEARS and 54 applications " the ECHR STRASBOURG!
The list goes on & on & on... so much that you wont believe it, and probably DONT believe it because IF KENNY DALGLISH ( the LIVERPOOL Manager ) refers to such "repeated co-incidences" of seemingly biased (FA appointed) refereee decisions the MEDIA which is full of manc & cockney fans who resent our GLORIOUS history and even ex-players who have been as "sky(tv) - washed as some so-called "Lfc Fannies"...
ANYONE who does not see that the EXTREME 8 match ban of LUIS SUAREZ was more DIS CRIMI NATION, must be blind, deaf & dumb! ironic in that they claim against him - the FA DO in their own actions and MEDIA calling him racist, is "over-looked" ... The recent KO time of the Wembley semi-final when over 70,000 REdS & bluies from LIVERPOOL had to get to London by mid-day was a mild example, the allocation of "selected pubs", which ignored that "scouse rivals" often drink in the same pubsis just adding IGNORANCE to INJURY...its their aim to destroy our SPIRIT
... and so it goes on as the FA (FU?) Cup final is switched to an evening KO time causing thousands of REdS to be stranded in the capital of hypocrites, no doubt boosting pub income, whilst of course local chelski fans can drink and go where & when they want...and giving "THEM" and their media more opportunites to expose "drunken scousers"...
There are many things still wrong at our club, the enemy still is within and KENNY is far, far too good a man to expose the failings of FSG/NESV and yankers Henry-Werner (who disrespected us until 10,000 didnt turn up) and that american money-bolll*x disease is no better tha G & H ..at least people saw who they were!, FSG are more slick with "PR"!
"WE did NOT shout loud enough for Luis,
we didnt fight the FA,
the crowd at Anfield is too quiet
BUT WE WILL HAVE OUR DAY..."
I believe Rafa MUST come back., Steve Clarke is competent, and Kenny is great BUT I believe WITH RAFA we could be the BEST the THREE and Rudolfo & Mike in the reserves & academy form a strong leadership with the best of British & European...tell the world that the NEW BOOT ROOM is NOT a RESTAURANT!!
Every game we are playing against 12 on the Pitch the other team + the FA-biased Referee..
WE should add our voices to Kenny Steve & Rafa's "bootroom" ; 11 players and Subs, booroom and US = we become 19 + to win 19 + leagues!!
p.s. in case "fannies" want a simple message that only takes up a few seconds of their concentration..dont moan at Kenny or the players ; Moan at FA, UEFA, FSG & the scumedia
and JOIN SUPPORT of GLOBAL REdS @ http://rednet-alien.blogspot.com/
Next :Not Next : an Institute Fellow? The accident in Brittany; leaving Isis, Paris & being "head-hunted" and keeping my head!
Posted Yesterday by REdNET
CONTINUED (from http://now2balien.blogspot.com/2012/04/12417-nenenenennnnnnnineteen.html )
... already travelling around Europe, forming a Union, wizz-kid - this "fella" became a "fellow of the Institute...
I am writing this on the weekend of 21, 22 April 2012, 50 years ago ....Liverpool fc got promoted to the top division of the Football league and have stayed in the top section of the most important league in the World ever since...NO other club can say this!! ( http://chrismithlog.blogspot.com/2012/04/live-r-pool-update-v-woy-on-sunday.html )
its relevant to my mentality and in a world populated by people who are being "sky(tv)-washed" into being dumb and without concentration..its remarkable that our club hav sustained a level so high despite not having the financial resources of many of our rivals..
........AND 17 years ago I woke from the post-meningitis COMA.. so perhaps whilst annot "exciting" story, my own feelings are affected by these EMOTIVE aspects In a world that tends not to care, its my "alternative birthday" ... ;)
As I woke this morning I reflected on the "creativity of conflict" and why this universe is constantly in turmoil...because "conflict" and ADVERSITY stirs the best in humanity... basic example has been this last winter, I broke my ankle playing football with the young lads..(my own fault not theirs) and this city of Podgorica had freak snow fall. over 1 metre in residental areas! ...making it very difficult for me, alone, to 'get around" luckily a local store is on the corner, as I had also most no other contact with people other than the "shop girls" ...however, people risk their lives when "at war" and travel long distances to defend whatver they are "convinced" to fight for, or will save others lives in a "known disaster" but...let their neighbours die without reaction during "peacetime"//
the people on this planet are really weird...
rewind to the days of "wine & youth"... Having joined Isis and over-coming a "divorce" my "confidence level" grew ...forming their staff association (the closest thing to a Union that could be obtained) during a preiod which there was also a FOUR_day week due to the UK energy crisis; amazing really that a relatively afluent society as the UK did that, yet other smaller, weaker or poorer nations never have? of course the modern USA would never think of "saving energy" but anyway ...so not to be distracted..back to "then"...
not really! just JOKING ? ;)
As I told Allen (one of my Isis bosses) "I have to channel my anger, sadness & frustration" at losing my young family - and I did , into my career - and I became what they used to calll a "Wizz Kid" ..someone whose rise to success was rapid
..I was hungry for more & more responsibility, and maybe an explanation as to how Alexander, Hitler or Napoleon or better to say; Ghandi,. can have had such an influence on this planet's history ; the REST of the people DONT want "responsibility" - and that includes so-called leaders of modern political parties, global institutions, governments, armies, corporations and religions! amazing? ask yourself who around you want "responsibility" or would dare "volunteer"???
I am now some kind of a "dedicated Volunteer", that will be explained later, then I was paid well anyway, but still hungry, not for money or even power, but for the "challenge" the new situation, place or people to encounter..
The Wine trade was well stocked with its share of idiots but also there were many very nice, kind and sociable people. I had been introduced to French culture as a teenager in a family of the town of Macon, Mon. Grizzard serving me wine at the lunch table and 2 hours mid-day break, was opposite the USA/anglo-saxon trend of fast food and coffee/sandwich breaks... but it stayed in my mind..and I later did a lot being "sociably active" ...
The young captain
I was still captain of the local team, and one of the Players (Dave) took a room in my large family house (he had a pretty girlfriend so was happy to have somewhere cheap to be with her!) I welcomed "company"
the rest of the lads showed me their support, & came to visit when they heard of my divorce (I was only 21) and when they saw that I had only cut half the grass and the borrowed lawnmower still there on the half-mowed lawn, they nicknamed me "Captain Lawnmower" (with compliments to Gregory Peck and his famous seafaring role! ) ha ha ;)
AS my first wife had been my first real "relationship" I was a bit unprepared for "dating' I took out my friend's sister in law; the beautiful Penny, but I didnt really appreciate the "advantages" I had,, I was young "upwardly mobile" own (company paid) car, travelling abroad, captain of the footy team, and not ugly...
anyway/....I recall one girl coming to watch me play, and i had the worse game of the season! ..i was hardly what they call "cool" (I still am not...) another slept in my bed, but kept her jeans on...funny now, when i think back
...then I went a few times to my mate Mike's girlfriends house, Julie had 2 sisters ; the younger Jill, voluptuous , and did i say YOUNG!? (although i was only 21!) and Gaye who was a couple of years younger than me, not so obviously beautiful, a bit nervous and a "worrier"...
Julie was attractive and out-going and Gaye was sort of "supressed" by her sister, and maybe my "Knight in shining armour syndrome" got alerted to rescue her and we became friends, she would come to watch me play football ; EVERY game, rain or shine. we went dancing , we talked a lot and I helped her "grow" and her confidence grew with our relationship..and so, when Dave moved to marry his girlfriend, I moved to a "maisonette" and Gaye virtually moved in with me..
The football team was my "family" too, and our social circle, nearly every saturday after a game, Graham (Pennyfather) the manager or myself or one of the lads would have a "home party" and usually the whole team, wives and girlfriends would join in... it was great and its a shame that such "bonding" seems rare these days when everyone seems to "do their own thing" with cable Tv, satellite, video games etc etc ...there was somethign unigoe about our group that I have only experienced during my Liverpool REdS outings, trips & other related events around Europe.....
@ Isis I was assisting the commercial manager ; Peter King with all aspects, and he let me take them over...I cant recall exactly, but he made a bad mistake and then HE was sacked, & I was made International Manager; negociating tariffs & contracts and travelling through the wine regions of Europe; enjoying the best food & wines, the best restaurants, hotels, business travel with some funny experiences; Meeting Scac in Bordeaux, Danielle; the "Emanuelle-look-a-like" her family, the "ronnie biggs incident" and the continual enjoyment of being young yet "in charge...
Next : an Institute Fellow? The accident in Brittany; leaving Isis, Paris & being "head-hunted" and keeping my head! ;)
more for True REdS @ http://rednet-alien.blogspot.com/
or http://chrismithlog.blogspot.com/ and for the "alternatives" ..go to..
ADD..(in case u are still awake, and alive??)
and another letters from Crazyhorse77 (MY kop)
Letter to FA re: Suarez - reply received
Thought you might be interested to read my letter to http://www.thefa.com/Feedback and the response I received, followed by my reply to their reply (if YOU want to send a similar letter, you need to register with FA and e-mail via their e-form; if they reply, you cannot reply directly, but have to fill in another e-form - which is tedious....and long-winded...Typical FA in fact!?! Only joking FA...
The initial letter is long, I admit, but even having tried to trim it down, the subject and the complexity of any argument analysing the Suarez case demands a lot of detail....
Here is the initial letter:
Dear English FA,
I am endeavouring to bring my research, into the anomalies that call into question the FA Panel verdict on Liverpool Football Club player Luis Suarez, to the attention of senior management and/or the legal team of the Football Association of England. Ideally, I would kindly ask you to forward this research directly to FA chairman Mr David Bernstein.
My research is in relation to principles in English Law, which apply to disciplinary hearings aswell as criminal trials - namely, the principles of natural justice; the rule against bias (nemo iudex in causa sua) and the right to a fair hearing (audi alteram partem); and how those principles were, I believe, violated in various ways before, during and after the FA Panel disciplinary investigation into Patrice Evra's allegations of racist abuse against Luis Suarez.
Please can you take time to read my analysis and present it to senior management at the FA; including Mr Bernstein.
I believe my research has genuine validity and raises several genuine concerns and possible avenues of re-dress for the club and/or LFC's and/or NESV's and/or Luis Suarez's legal team to pursue.
Here is my research:
"LFC, as a club, and its fans, have the right to support Luis Suarez without being accused of being racist or of condoning racism. This is because they believe Suarez did not receive a fair trial, following the precepts of natural justice (also known as due process), or a trial free from bias.
Natural justice is a term that denotes specific procedural rights in the English legal system and the systems of other nations based on it. Whilst the term natural justice is often retained as a general concept, it has largely been replaced and extended by the more general "duty to act fairly".
Natural justice is similar to the American concepts of fair procedure and procedural due process, the latter having roots that to some degree parallel the origins of natural justice.
What is required to fulfil this duty depends on the context in which the matter arises. There are two rules that natural justice is concerned with. These are the rule against bias (nemo iudex in causa sua) and the right to a fair hearing (audi alteram partem).
The basis for the rule against bias is the need to maintain public confidence in the legal system. The same should apply to FA Panel hearings and investigations, but clearly, it did not in this case.
Bias can take the form of actual bias, imputed bias or apparent bias. Actual bias is very difficult to prove in practice while imputed bias, once shown, will result in a decision being void without the need for any investigation into the likelihood or suspicion of bias. Cases from different jurisdictions currently apply two tests for apparent bias: the "reasonable suspicion of bias" test and the "real likelihood of bias" test.
The issue, or at the very least, the question, of bias, in relation to the FA Panel investigation of Luis Suarez, arises with the inclusion of Denis Smith on the FA Panel.
Denis Smith managed Wrexham FC between 2001 and 2007, during which a key member of his squad was Darren Ferguson, son of MUFC manager Sir Alex Ferguson. Smith held Darren Ferguson in such high regard he made him captain of Wrexham.
In 2009, Denis Smith released his autobiography, "Just One of Seven", in which he talks of his close ties to Sir Alex Ferguson and how he "helped save Sir Alex Ferguson's job". This is a clear potential sign of a potential conflict of interest and potential source of bias, meaning the panel should have been stood down and reconstituted.
This is because the inclusion of Mr Smith on the panel breached the natural justice rule against bias or possible bias (nemo iudex in causa sua).
The legal effect of a breach of natural justice is normally to stop the proceedings and render any judgment invalid; it should be quashed or appealed, but may be remitted for a valid re-hearing.
Onto the verdict itself - the verdict was subjectively arrived at by analysis of two sets of conflicting verbal testimony, neither of which were backed up by video or audio corroboration. The one phrase Suarez admitted using was shown by the linguistic experts to not be racially offensive, and it should not be translated out of context into English as being offensive, as both players were talking to each other in Spanish.
Just because one is in England, does not change the different meaning of "neh-#ro" (black) in Rio-Platense Spanish, into the pejorative version of the word in English, spelt the same, "neg#o", but with a completely different meaning.
LFC also disputed why the FA Panel believed Evra's evidence over Suarez's. They pointed to Evra having testimony in a previous FA Panel racism case dismissed as "exaggerated and unreliable".
They point to both players having severe inconsistencies in their evidence but this was only held against Suarez. They point to Evra being allowed to view video footage before giving his testimony - Suarez was not afforded this same privilege. This breaches the principle of the right to a fair hearing (audi alteram partem).
The legal effect of a breach of natural justice is normally to stop the proceedings and render any judgment invalid; it should be quashed or appealed, but may be remitted for a valid re-hearing.
Here's a quote from the FA Panel report on discrepancies in Evra's testimony as highlighted by the FA Panel - this section of the report concerns verbal allegations Evra made about LFC player Dirk Kuyt (the lies caused so much confusion even Kuyt ended up thinking he had said something to Evra when the video evidence showed neither had said anything): "Mr Evra said that while he was lying on the ground, Mr Kuyt came up to him and said "stand up, you f#cking pr#ck". Mr Kuyt said "This is untrue. What I did say was something to the effect of 'Stand up, stand up', as if to say that it had been a foul but he was making too much of it." The video footage did not show Mr Kuyt speaking to Mr Evra at this time but Mr Kuyt admitted that he did so. The dispute is about what Mr Kuyt said, not about whether he said anything to Mr Evra at that time. Very little attention was paid to this dispute during the hearing and we did not find it necessary in reaching our decision to make a finding about what Mr Kuyt had said to Mr Evra."
What the FA Panel are effectively saying here is that they are not concerned that Mr Evra made unproveable and unsubstantiated verbal allegations about Mr Kuyt, and yet they go on to claim that Evra is a reliable witness (although a previous FA Panel in the Chelseas groundsman racism allegations claim dismissed Evra's testimony as "exaggerated and unreliable")...
And, indeed, this is what goes on throughout the investigation.....confused, error-strewn verbal testimony from Evra and everybody else, subjectively validated or invalidated with little contextual consistency or objective reasoning...
This breaches the principle of the right to a fair hearing (audi alteram partem).
The legal effect of a breach of natural justice is normally to stop the proceedings and render any judgment invalid; it should be quashed or appealed, but may be remitted for a valid re-hearing.
If this major discrepancy in Evra's testimony was dismissed as irrelevant, why were other aspects of Evra's testimony viewed as believable when the only piece of verbal testimony which appeared to be supported by movements and actions in the match video was Suarez's one admitted phrase, in response to Evra insulting him. Suarez's phrase in that instatnt was supported by the Rio-Platense Spanish experts as not being racist abuse and not being offensive.
Ergo, this does not make the Suarez t-shirts "racial abuse", or condoning racism, as many in the media and elsewhere have stated - it makes them t-shirts depicting a mixed race Amer-Indian man with black roots, who LFC and its fans believe has been falsely found guilty of making a racist insult.
This does not make LFC guilty of causing the Adeyemi abuse, as many in the media and elsewhere have stated - because that man has been arrested and was condemned by LFC pending further investigation of him. That man was responsible for his own actions, just like the MUFC season ticket holder recently found guilty in a criminal court of racially aggravated abuse of Kenwyne Jones.
The mere fact that a decision affects rights or interests is sufficient to subject the decision to the procedures required by natural justice. In Europe, the right to a fair hearing is guaranteed by Article 6(1) of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is said to complement the common law rather than replace it.
Given the fact that various principles of natural justice were breached by the FA Panel in their disciplinary investigation into alledged racist abuse made ny MUFC player Patrice Evra, against LFC player, Luis Suarez, the FA should act IMMEDIATELY to quash the verdict against Luis Suarez.
Here is some more information on natural justice and how it applies to all aspects of English jurisdiction - including disciplinary hearings in organisations such as the FA.
"In 1924, Lord Chief Justice Hewart articulated a fundamental principle of justice that applies in all spheres of dispute and trial by jury or panel or tribunal, and that includes the conduct of disciplinary hearings: "It is of fundamental importance that justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done."
When one investigative reporter quizzed the FA as to why Denis Smith was included on the FA Panel, an FA spokesperson stated that it is standard practice on disciplinary panels, to include someone who has experience in the game, usually a former player or manager.
Of all the thousands of former players and managers presumably available to sit on this panel, why did the FA choose to select someone with close ties to, and obvious affection and sympathy for Sir Alex Ferguson?
Looking at the situation objectively, anyone would be forced to conclude that there is a clear conflict of interest here. Nobody is doubting Smith's ability to try and remain unbiased, but as the Lord Hewart assertion states: "Justice must not only be done; it must be seen to be done."
Anybody objective would reasonably argue that there is serious potential for sub-conscious, inadvertent bias towards Manchester United here." With thanks to and paraphrasing in places, J Kanwar (Liverpool Kop).
I would add to this the following:
The bias inherent or implied in Denis Smith's appointment to the Panel, falls under the precept of Nemo iudex in causa sua (or nemo iudex in sua causa) - a Latin phrase that means, literally, "no-one should be a judge in their own cause".
It is a principle of natural justice that no person can judge a case in which they have an interest. The rule is very strictly applied to any appearance of a possible bias, even if there is actually none: "Justice must not only be done, but must be seen to be done".
So there you have it - the case should have been dismissed as soon as this potential for bias was established...
Concerned LFC fan
Thank you for contacting TheFootball Association.
Non eof the three Independent Commission members work for The FA and both parties(The FA and Liverpool FC) were specifically asked whether they wished to raiseany objection to any of the members of the panel. Liverpool FC stated beforethe hearing that they were happy with the makeup of the panel.
The‘balance of probability’ is the standard of proof applied in all FAdisciplinary proceedings: it is set out in the Regulations of TheAssociation and in fact it is used as the standard of proof in all similarsport and professional disciplinary proceedings, including those of the GMCwhich regulates the conduct of doctors and in police disciplinary cases. Suchprofessional cases can result in medical professionals or policemen oflong-standing being ‘struck off’ or prevented from practising theirchosen profession. The ‘balance of probability’ test is well established in lawas the appropriate one for this sort of a case.
TheFA is entirely confident that the Commission was able to act independentlywithin the process. Again, our processes and procedures for dealing withdisciplinary cases are consistent with other sports and professional bodies andare designed to ensure fairness to all parties. Had there been any real orperceived bias on the part of the Commission or any member sitting on it, theparties had every opportunity to challenge the process or appeal the decision onthat basis. Alternatively, if there had been any other flaw in theproceedings or any other issue which may have caused any unfairness against MrSuarez, a challenge or appeal could have been brought on that basis.
Pleasenote that Liverpool FC have already informed The FA that they will not be appealing the decision of an IndependentRegulatory Commission.
Thank you again for your email.
Alex Burkwood | Customer Relations Officer
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London, HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London, SW1P 9EQ
T +44 (0) 844 980 8200 | F+44 (0) 844 980 8201